Hazard NYC Podcast - Can a Contaminated Creek Come Clean? - Season 2: Episode 1

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Newtown Creek is one of the country’s most polluted waterways. Flooding from sea level rise and storms threatens to spread the creek’s contamination and bring pollution from outside the water into it. The feds are figuring out how to include climate change into the clean-up plan they’re developing. 

THE CITY’s senior reporter Samantha Maldonado and independent journalist Jordan Gass-Pooré dive in on episode one of Hazard NYC, a four-part FAQ NYC Presents limited series exploring the city’s Superfund sites. 

As one scientist puts it, “We cannot accept that there are regions of our city that are so contaminated that we would say, ‘I wouldn't want to touch it.’ Because guess what? It comes for you. That's the reality of climate change and our coastal waterways.”

See and read more about Newtown Creek here.

If you like what you’re hearing, please spread the word, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever podcasts are found.

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Read the episode transcript below:

**HS VO [PRE-ROLL] **

It’s FAQ NYC PRESENTS, where the only podcast in the only city in the world brings in other voices to dig into what it’s all about.

I’m Harry Siegel, FAQ NYC’s co-host and executive producer, and right now you’re going to hear part 1 of Hazard NYC, a four-part limited series looking at New York’s four federal superfund sites hosted by Samantha Maldonado of The City and independent journalist Jordan Gass-Poore.

Hazard NYC was made possible by support from the Fund for Investigative Journalism. The project was produced in partnership with the McGraw Center for Business Journalism at the CUNY Graduate School of Journalism, and is part of the Pulitzer Center's Connected Coastlines initiative. For more information, go to pulitzer center dot org… forward slash… connected hyphen coastlines.

Hazard NYC is supported in part by Newlab – a platform helping deep-tech startups succeed to address the climate crisis. Learn more at newlab.com.

Let’s jump right in.

[BOAT TOUR SFX: BOAT BEING LOWERED INTO THE WATER]

**JGP VO [BOAT TOUR] **

I CLIMBED INTO A SMALL BOAT THAT LAUNCHED FROM A DOCK IN GREENPOINT INTO NEWTOWN CREEK.

[BOAT TOUR SFX]

**Willis Elkins: **I'll show you real quick on the map, where we're headed here.

JGP VO

MY GUIDE WAS WILLIS ELKINS. HE’S THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NEWTOWN CREEK ALLIANCE… HE KNOWS THE HISTORY OF THESE MURKY WATERS…

**Willis Elkins: **The sediment below us is the most contaminated stuff in the creek.

JGP VO

AND THE BRIGHT SPOTS.

**Willis Elkins: **It's also an area where there's, like, the most, like, bird wildlife activity.

JGP VO

FOR NEARLY FOUR MILES… NEWTOWN CREEK SNAKES BETWEEN NORTH BROOKLYN… AND PARTS OF QUEENS.

[SFX: CAR, BRIDGE]

JGP VO

FROM THE BOAT I SAW EGRETS AND CORMORANTS AND WATCHED WAREHOUSES SLIDE BY.

[SFX]

I ALSO SAW WATER THAT REMINDED ME OF PICKLE JUICE. AND THEN FURTHER DOWNSTREAM… IT SMELLED KINDA LIKE ROTTEN EGGS.

[MUX IN: “Hazard NYC Theme”]

JGP VO

I’M JORDAN GASS POORE… AN INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST AND PODCAST PRODUCER.

SM VO

AND I’M SAMANTHA MALDONADO… A REPORTER WITH THE CITY.

WE’RE BRINGING YOU HAZARD N-Y-C… A MINI SERIES FROM F-A-Q N-Y-C.

ON THIS EPISODE… WE TAKE A JOURNEY TO NEWTOWN CREEK… ONE OF NEW YORK CITY’S FOUR SUPERFUND SITES.

[MUX OUT: “Hazard NYC Theme”]

**Laura Hoffman: **I remember when I was a child coming back from vacation, and hitting the Greenpoint Avenue Bridge, in the car, that the smell would literally wake me up. It was like a slap in the face. The smell was so bad that it could make you want to vomit. Sewage, and other chemicals, all kinds of stuff.

SM VO

LAURA HOFFMAN, A LIFELONG BROOKLYN RESIDENT, LIVES RIGHT NEAR NEWTOWN CREEK, ONE OF THE MOST POLLUTED WATERWAYS IN THE U-S.

AS A SUPERFUND SITE, IT’S ON THE ROAD TO GETTING CLEANER.

JGP VO

NEWTOWN CREEK IS PRONE TO FLOODING… WHICH THREATENS TO SPREAD POLLUTION BEYOND THE CREEK… AND BRING MORE POLLUTION INTO IT.

TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE CREEK NEEDS A CLEAN UP… YOU NEED TO KNOW ITS HISTORY.

[MUX IN: “Awful Sad”]

SM VO

ALMOST TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO… THE CREEK’S COASTLINE WAS LINED WITH OVER FIFTY OIL REFINERIES… SAWMILLS… AND FACTORIES THAT PRODUCED FERTILIZER AND GLUE… AMONG MANY OTHER THINGS.

JGP VO

BUT AS MUCH AS MUCH AS THOSE BUSINESSES CONTRIBUTED TO THE CITY’S ECONOMY… THEY ALSO POLLUTED THE CREEK.

FOR DECADES… THESE COMPANIES USED THE WATERWAY AS A DUMPING GROUND FOR CHEMICALS AND FUELS.

SM VO

HUMAN WASTE ENTERED THE WATER FROM THE CITY’S SEWER SYSTEM STARTING IN THE MID 18-HUNDREDS.

NOW THE AREA IS STILL PRETTY INDUSTRIAL… AND… THE CONTAMINATION FROM THOSE YEARS REMAINS.

JGP VO

OIL… METALS LIKE LEAD AND COPPER… AND OTHER CARCINOGENIC CHEMICALS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN THE CREEK’S SEDIMENT.

THE CLEAN UP OF THE SITE COULD TAKE A DECADE — AND THE E-P-A HAS TO FINALIZE ITS PLAN FIRST.

SM VO

UNTIL THAT DAY COMES… LOCAL RESIDENTS WILL KEEP PUSHING FOR A CLEANER WATERWAY.

[MUX FADE OUT: “Awful Sad”]

**Laura Hoffman: **I’m Laura Hoffman. Pain In The Ass. I guess that's my expertise in the neighborhood.

JGP VO

THIS LAURA HOFFMAN… SIXTY FIVE… WHO YOU HEARD EARLIER. SHE’S A BORN AND BRED GREENPOINTER AND A SELF-PROCLAIMED AGITATOR.

Laura Hoffman: My husband and I are members of practically every organization that begins with the words Newtown Creek.

JGP

EVEN HER HUSBAND’S FAMILY HAS LIVED IN THE AREA FOR GENERATIONS.

WE SAT WITH HER AT HER DINING ROOM TABLE… WHILE HER CAT TRIED TO JOIN THE INTERVIEW.

**Laura Hoffman: **Sorry, that's my cat. There we go. There we go. Sorry about that.

SM VO

FAMILY PHOTOS HUNG ON HER WALLS… REMINDERS OF LAURA’S DEEP ROOTS IN THE COMMUNITY.

**Laura Hoffman: **I had so many aunts and uncles that came from this area that I could practically map out who died from what and connect them with the area and the toxins that they lived near.

JGP VO

WHEN SHE WAS KID… LAURA SAYS SHE DIDN’T NEED TO SEE THE FILTH ON THE SURFACE OF NEWTOWN CREEK TO KNOW IT WAS POLLUTED…

…SHE COULD SMELL IT.

SM VO

BUT MANY PEOPLE DIDN’T KNOW THE EXTENT OF THE CONTAMINATION.

**Laura Hoffman: **As we were growing up, my husband and I both have swam in either the Newtown Creek or the East River, played on the barges. I used to play on the salt piles in the industrial area near where the Department of Sanitation is located now. We went crabbing with our kids.

JGP VO

LAURA AND HER HUSBAND INITIALLY GOT INVOLVED WITH EFFORTS TO CLEAN UP NEWTOWN CREEK AND THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD YEARS AGO. THAT’S WHEN THEY NOTICED STRANGE ODORS WHILE THEIR KIDS WERE PLAYING SOFTBALL.

**Laura Hoffman: **We found out that some of the odors that the kids was smelling and things that were happening were because we were located near an oil spill, near a PVC manufacturer, near a sewage sludge tank, near all kinds of industry.

SM VO

LAURA WAS IN GREENPOINT IN 19-78… WHEN THE U-S COAST GUARD SPOTTED OIL FLOWING INTO NEWTOWN CREEK.

THEY DISCOVERED ONE OF THE LARGEST OIL SPILLS IN THE COUNTRY’S HISTORY.

IT’S ESTIMATED AT LEAST SEVENTEEN MILLION GALLONS OF OIL HAD LEAKED FROM AN OIL REFINERY AND FUEL STORAGE FACILITIES.

JGP VO

IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS… A SERIES OF LAWSUITS WERE BROUGHT AGAINST EXXON MOBIL TO GET THE COMPANY TO PAY FOR THE CLEANUP OF THE SPILL…

EXXON SETTLED IN 20-10, THE SAME YEAR THE E-P-A DESIGNATED NEWTOWN CREEK AS A SUPERFUND SITE.

UNDER THAT PROGRAM, THE E-P-A WOULD OVERSEE THE CLEAN-UP AND MAKE THE POLLUTERS PAY.

**Laura Hoffman: **You know, one by one different polluters have been getting caught, and, you know, they have their feet being held to the fire and being forced to take responsibility for their actions. The creek is becoming somewhat cleaner, although by somewhat cleaner, you know, I'm using that real loose, because there's a lot to do to get that creek to be healthy and clean.

[MUX IN: “2nd Edit Interstitial Sad or Contemplative”]

SM VO

THE E-P-A IS WORKING WITH A GROUP OF COMPANIES THAT BEAR RESPONSIBILITY FOR POLLUTING THE CREEK.

AND THE CLEAN UP CAN’T COME SOON ENOUGH.

JGP VO

NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND NEWTOWN CREEK …PARTS OF GREENPOINT… EAST WILLIAMSBURG… MASPETH… AND LONG ISLAND CITY… FOR INSTANCE… HAVE A ONE PERCENT CHANCE OF EXPERIENCING A MAJOR FLOOD IN ANY GIVEN YEAR.

SM VO

AND CLIMATE CHANGE WILL MAKE IT WORSE.

HERE IN NEW YORK SEA LEVELS ARE ESTIMATED TO RISE BETWEEN ABOUT A FOOT AND TWO FEET BY THE 20-50s. THAT’S ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK CITY PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

JGP VO

ON TOP OF RISING SEA LEVELS… CLIMATE CHANGE WILL BRING MORE INTENSE AND FREQUENT STORMS.

HURRICANE SANDY GAVE US A PEEK INTO WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE HAS IN STORE FOR US.

DURING THE 20-12 STORM… NEWTOWN CREEK SURGED PAST ITS BANKS AND INFLICTED FLOOD DAMAGE… UP AND DOWN THE WATERWAY.

[MUX FADE OUT: “2nd Edit Interstitial Sad or Contemplative”]

Gregory O'Mullan: I've been there in the days following Sandy crawling around in basements where Newtown Creek was in people's homes, it was in the streets, you saw the watermarks, often with the grit associated with it on the buildings.

SM VO

GREGORY O’MULLAN IS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AND MICROBIOLOGIST AT QUEENS COLLEGE.

TO HIM… HURRICANE SANDY UNDERSCORES THE IMPORTANCE OF A CLEANUP.

**Gregory O'Mullan: **That waterway will not stay within its bounds, it will not in the climate context that's coming. And therefore the contamination that is in those environments and the sewage that we put into those environments, often associated with the same events that cause it to breach its banks. Those moments we have to be prepared for. And part of that means we cannot accept that there are regions of our city that are so contaminated that we would say I wouldn't want to touch it. Because guess what, it comes for you — that's the reality of climate change and our coastal waterways.

JGP VO

PAUL PULLO KNOWS THIS ALL TOO WELL. FOR YEARS… HIS FAMILY RAN A HEATING OIL BUSINESS CALLED METRO FUEL. IT SAT ON THE SOUTH BANK OF NEWTOWN CREEK IN GREENPOINT.

HE SOLD THE BUSINESS ABOUT A DECADE AGO… BUT NOT BEFORE SANDY HIT.

**Paul Pullo: **We had four feet of water in the offices. We were prepared for probably two feet but we had four, so everything we did it went over all the, all the preparations that we may never expected it to go that high.

SM VO

PAUL SAYS THEY HAD INSTALLED BARRIERS AROUND THE BUILDING TO PREVENT DAMAGE.

**Paul Pullo: **This wasn't the first flood we had. So over the years, being there we knew some of the things we should do.

SM VO

AFTER THE STORM ENDED… PAUL SAYS HE REMEMBERS THERE WAS SOME NASTY STUFF INSIDE HIS FACILITY THAT HE HAD TO CLEAN UP.

Paul Pullo: There was some residue on some of the dike walls from floating oil, but there was no contamination that we found.

JGP VO

PAUL MAY NOT HAVE FOUND ANY CONTAMINATION… BUT THE E-P-A DID.

AFTER SANDY… THE AGENCY SAMPLED THE FLOODWATER. THEY FOUND CHEMICALS… BUT THEY WERE AT SUCH LOW LEVELS THERE WASN’T ANY CAUSE FOR CONCERN.

**Walter Mugdan: **It was very, very low, in many cases negligible or under non-detect levels of the chemical contamination.

JGP VO

THAT’S WALTER MUGDAN. HE’S A FORMER DEPUTY REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE E-P-A.

**Walter Mugdan: **But we did find pathogens bacteria that are associated with sewage. So it wasn't good to have in people's homes. But it wasn't the chemical stuff that's in the bottom of these waterways.

SM VO

IN GENERAL… THE E-P-A SAID IT’S MOSTLY FOCUSED ON LONG-TERM EXPOSURE TO CHEMICALS.

CONTAMINATION SPREAD AFTER A FLOOD MAY NOT POSE THAT KIND OF HARM.

HERE’S JOHN PRINCE. HE OVERSEES THE E-P-A’S SUPERFUND PROGRAM IN THE NEW YORK REGION.

**John Prince: **We wouldn't expect an exposure like sediments that might get deposited after a storm to pose that kind of a risk.

JGP VO

ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER… WITHOUT PROPER PROTECTION… THE BUSINESSES THEMSELVES COULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE POLLUTION OF THE CREEK WHEN THERE’S A FLOOD.

THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED AFTER SANDY. AROUND THE CREEK…

**Willis Elkins: **All these trucks got totally flooded. And it's, like, there's oil and other fluids leaking out of those trucks.

JGP VO

THAT’S WILLIS ELKINS AGAIN. HE’S THE ONE WHO TOOK ME ON THE BOAT TOUR AT THE TOP OF THE EPISODE.

**Willis Elkins: **For weeks after Sandy, the creek was a rainbow of chemicals.

SM VO

HE REMEMBERS THIS AND WORRIES THAT THE CONTAMINATION FROM THE LAND AROUND THE CREEK WILL GET INTO THE WATER… AND ULTIMATELY MESS UP THE EFFORTS TO CLEAN THE CREEK.

**Willis Elkins: **We're concerned about a remedy that doesn't fully address all those and that for years to come, we still have ongoing sources of pollution that put the ecology and put the community at risk.

JGP VO

THE E-P-A IS STUDYING HOW THE GROUNDWATER AND THE POLLUTANTS MAY BE MOVING AROUND… AND WILL INCORPORATE THE RESULTS INTO ITS CLEANUP PLAN.

THE AGENCY MAY HAVE TO WORK WITH PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS TO ADDRESS ANY MOVEMENT OF CONTAMINANTS FROM AREAS AROUND THE CREEK.

THAT’S BECAUSE THE E-P-A’S PURVIEW INCLUDES ONLY THE CREEK ITSELF… NOT THE LAND AROUND IT.

**Stephanie Vaughn: **There's a world outside of Superfunds.

SM VO

HERE’S STEPHANIE VAUGHN… AN E-P-A PROJECT MANAGER FOR NEWTOWN CREEK.

**Stephanie Vaughn: **We're going to do as much as we can through Superfund, and then try to work with the other entities to facilitate, encourage increased improvement, investment and best practices, so that the overall health of the creek can improve over time.

**HS VO [MID-ROLL] **

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SM VO

THE ACTUAL PLAN FOR REMEDIATION IS HOTLY ANTICIPATED.

LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT NEWTOWN CREEK ARE PRETTY FRUSTRATED BY HOW LONG THE PROCESS IS TAKING.

WILLIS ELKINS BLAMES THE BACK-AND-FORTH BETWEEN THE E-P-A… AND THE PARTIES THE AGENCY IDENTIFIED AS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREEK’S POLLUTION.

JGP VO

THOSE PARTIES INCLUDE THE CITY OF NEW YORK PLUS…

**David Haury: **Five industrial corporations, Exxon Mobil, National Grid, Phelps, Dodge Refining Corporation, BP, and Texaco.

JGP VO

THAT’S DAVID HAURY [har-ee]… PRINCIPAL OF THE CONSULTING FIRM ANCHOR Q-E-A. HE WAS HIRED BY THOSE FIVE COMPANIES TO DO THE TECHNICAL WORK AT NEWTOWN CREEK.

TOGETHER… THOSE COMPANIES ARE KNOWN AS THE NEWTOWN CREEK GROUP… OR N-C-G.

**David Haury: **Other parties have been identified by EPA and the NCG. But they're not currently participating in any of the studies being done and to pay for the cleanup where they have some responsibility.

SM VO

DAVID SAYS THE E-P-A MAKES THE CALLS DURING THE PROCESS.

**David Haury: **It has taken a long time. The schedule is controlled by EPA; they decide what they want to do, and when they want to do it, and we develop work plans and go implement the work.

JGP VO

SOME IN THE COMMUNITY ARE SKEPTICAL.

**Willis Elkins: **We want to have full faith in EPA that they are driving the show, and then we're gonna get a thorough proper remediation in a timely manner.

SM VO

IN THE MEANTIME… THERE’S BEEN LOTS OF SAMPLING… DATA COLLECTION… AND TECHNICAL WORK DONE BY THE E-P-A AND DAVID AND HIS STAFF.

JGP VO

PART OF WHAT THE E-P-A IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS WHICH CONTAMINANTS PRESENT AT THE SITE POSE AN “UNACCEPTABLE RISK” TO HUMAN HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT.

HERE’S STEPHANIE FROM THE E-P-A AGAIN.

**Stephanie Vaughn: **Those include total PCBs, polychlorinated biphenyls, total pH is hydrocarbons and dioxins interference.

SM VO

LET’S BREAK THAT DOWN.

JGP VO

NEWTOWN CREEK’S TOXIC COCKTAIL IS MADE UP OF MAINLY HUMAN MADE INDUSTRIAL CHEMICALS THAT COULD CAUSE CANCER…

… LONG TERM EXPOSURE TO THESE CHEMICALS COULD CAUSE ORGAN DAMAGE… RASHES… AND CATARACTS.

THE CREEK IS ALSO POLLUTED WITH DANGEROUS HEAVY METALS… INCLUDING LEAD AND COPPER.

**Stephanie Vaughn: **The exposure to the hazardous substances in the creek, it would be primarily through ingestion of fish and crabs from the creek.

JGP VO

PEOPLE DO GO FISHING IN THE CREEK. AND DESPITE SIGNS WARNING AGAINST EATING WHAT THEY CATCH, IT’S ASSUMED SOME PEOPLE STILL DO.

**Stephanie Vaughn: **From an ecological perspective, we also have the biggest risks are to those little critters that live in the creek.

SM VO

SOME OF THOSE CONTAMINANTS COME FROM PAST AND CURRENT INDUSTRIAL USES. OTHER POLLUTION IS FROM THE SEWER. THAT’S WHY THE CITY OF NEW YORK IS IMPLICATED.

HERE’S RIT AGGARWALA… THE COMMISSIONER OF THE CITY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION.

**Rit Aggarwala: **Part of DEP’s responsibility is to come up with a plan to reduce the combined sewer overflows into Newtown Creek.

[MUX IN: “Interstitial - Fast,Sad,Weird TRACK”]

SM VO

RIT IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN RAW SEWAGE IS UNLEASHED INTO THE CREEK.

IN MOST OF THE CITY… THE SEWER SYSTEM’S PIPES CARRY BOTH WATER FROM RAIN AND THE WATER THAT COMES FROM THE TOILETS… SHOWERS… AND LAUNDRY.

AND WHEN IT RAINS… THE SYSTEM GETS OVERWHELMED.

JGP VO

INSTEAD OF GETTING TO THE TREATMENT PLANT… THIS MIX OF WATER AND WASTE POURS INTO WATER BODIES LIKE NEWTOWN CREEK. THAT’S A COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOW… A C-S-O.

SO WHEN YOU FLUSH DURING RAINY DAYS… WHATEVER’S IN YOUR TOILET HAS A GOOD CHANCE OF ENDING UP IN THE WATER.

BUT THAT’S WHERE THERE’S BEEN SOME REAL MOVEMENT IN RECENT YEARS.

SM VO

THE CITY MADE UPGRADES TO A WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT AT NEWTOWN CREEK.

YOU CAN SEE THE PLANT FROM AFAR BECAUSE OF ITS EIGHT GIANT METAL EGGS THAT DIGEST WASTEWATER. THAT’S WHERE MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF THE CITY’S SEWAGE GOES TO GET PROCESSED.

[MUX FADE OUT: “Interstitial - Fast,Sad,Weird TRACK”]

**Willis Elkins: **That's resulted in a lot of improvements to water quality in the lower two miles closest to the East River. And that has meant more return of marine wildlife.

SM VO

BUT THE CITY HAS TO DO MORE TO REDUCE THE POOP IN NEWTOWN CREEK. THE MAIN WAY THIS WILL HAPPEN IS THROUGH A NEW MASSIVE UNDERGROUND TUNNEL.

THE TUNNEL WILL HOLD THE WASTEWATER DURING A STORM THAT CAUSES THE SEWERS TO REACH CAPACITY… AND WHEN THE STORM ENDS… WHAT GOT CAPTURED WILL GO TO THE TREATMENT PLANT.

**Rit Aggarwala: **Think about what we're talking about: a 39-million-gallon tunnel around and across the creek. That’s a two-and-a-half billion dollar project.

JGP VO

WHEN THE TUNNEL IS COMPLETE… IT WILL SIGNIFICANTLY DECREASE THE SEWAGE ENTERING THE CREEK.

BUT IT WON’T GET IT DOWN TO ZERO.

STILL… THE E-P-A DETERMINED THAT’S OK.

BUT THERE”S QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW CLIMATE CHANGE COULD PUT SOME OF THAT PROGRESS AT RISK.

**Willis Elkins: **We're facing increasing rainfall. So, we're concerned that the pace going forward for reduction of CSO is not going to be as strong as was originally planned.

SM VO

REMEMBER… RAW SEWAGE SPILLS INTO THE CREEK WHEN IT RAINS A LOT.

BUT OFFICIALS SAY THE TUNNEL WILL BE EFFECTIVE EVEN WITH MORE RAIN.

**Rit Aggarwala: **The most harmful CSO events are actually the ones where you have a relatively low rainfall, but we have very little storage capacity and, therefore, you're actually dumping what is a relatively high concentration of sewage into the water.

SM VO

THE WAY THIS WILL WORK IS THE NEW TUNNEL WILL CAPTURE THE NASTIEST STUFF FIRST.

**Walter Mugdan: **It’s called the first flush.

SM VO

AGAIN… WALTER MUGDAN… FORMERY OF THE E-P-A.

**Walter Mugdan: **So, whatever water is in whatever sewage and in the sewage pipes, sewage, from people's toilets, and showers and dishwashers and everything else, whatever's in the pipes, when the rain starts, is the most concentrated amount of sewage, right? The more it rains, the more diluted it becomes.

SM VO

THE REST OF THE RAIN ALONG WITH SEWAGE WILL STILL ENTER THE CREEK. BUT…

**Walter Mugdan: **It's less and it's cleaner than what's going into the creek today.

[MUX IN: “Interstitial - Thoughtful GTR”]

SM VO

THE TUNNEL WON’T BE DONE UNTIL ABOUT 20-40…

JGP VO

CLEANING UP THE WATER IS ONE THING… BUT REMOVING THE CONTAMINATED SOIL ON THE BOTTOM OF THE CREEK IS A SEPARATE CONSIDERATION.

ONE WAY THE E-P-A CAN DO IT… IS TO DREDGE THE SEDIMENT. THAT MEANS SCOOPING OUT THE CONTAMINATED SOIL.

ANOTHER WAY IS CAPPING… WHICH IS COVERING UP THE CONTAMINATED SEDIMENT.

THERE ARE PROS AND CONS TO EACH STRATEGY… IN TERMS OF COSTS… HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE… THE IMPACTS TO THE ENVIRONMENT… AND HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE AT KEEPING THE POLLUTION AT BAY.

[MUX FADE OUT: “Interstitial - Thoughtful GTR”]

HERE’S JOHN PRINCE AGAIN FROM THE E-P-A.

**John Prince: **This is a very old waterway in a highly urban environment and it's reasonable for us to assume that remedies are not going to reach some sort of pristine clean level through dredging.

SM VO

JOHN SAYS THAT EVEN IF THE TEAM WAS TO DREDGE MANY FEET DOWN… A CAP WOULD PROBABLY STILL BE NEEDED.

**John Prince: **We still need to put a cap on to cover whatever's down there. Whatever the new bottom of the creek is probably likely to still have some level of contamination.

SM VO

AND CAPS CAN FACE PROBLEMS TOO.

CAPS CAN BE DISTURBED BY TURBULENCE IN THE WATER.

THE E-P-A SAID THEY WOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT CREEK CONDITIONS LIKE TIDES… FLOODING… BOATS TRAVELING THROUGH… AND RUNOFF… IN DEVISING A LONG-LASTING CAP.

**John Prince: **Our other expectation is we're not just going to build it and walk away, right? We're going to build it and then expect it to be monitored.

SM VO

THAT’S FOR WHATEVER ROUTE THEY END UP TAKING.

JGP VO

IN THE MEANTIME… THE E-P-A AND THE GROUP OF RESPONSIBLE COMPANIES ARE ALSO WORKING ON AN EARLY PLAN TO TACKLE ONE PART OF THE CREEK: THE EAST BRANCH.

THAT’S A TRIBUTARY OF THE CREEK THAT REACHES OUT TO MASPETH AND EAST WILLIAMSBURG. HERE’S STEPHANIE FROM THE E-P-A.

**Stephanie Vaughn: **This will allow work to start on that portion of the creek while the remedy for the rest of this site is being developed.

**[MUX IN: “1st go Interstitial 4 - Hopeful”] **

JGP VO

EVERYTHING IS STILL BEING WORKED OUT AMONG THE COMPANIES AND THE E-P-A … AND THEY MUST PRESENT ANY PROPOSALS THEY COME UP WITH TO THE COMMUNITY FOR FEEDBACK.

SM VO

AND THAT’S IMPORTANT. IT’S THE COMMUNITY WHO ARE THE ONES WHO LIVE AND PLAY AND WORK AROUND THE CREEK… IN SPITE OF HOW GROSS IT CAN BE.

THERE ARE BIRDERS WHO APPRECIATE FINDING PEACE ALONG THE WATER… EVEN WITH SOUNDS OF THE HIGHWAY IN THE BACKGROUND. STUDENTS LEARN ALONG THE BANKS AND SEE TINY FISH SWIMMING IN THE WATER.

AND… ALTHOUGH NEWTOWN CREEK IS NO LONGER THE ECONOMIC POWERHOUSE IT ONCE WAS… IT IS STILL AN ACTIVE COMMERCIAL ZONE.

ALL KINDS OF BUSINESSES OPERATE ALONG THE WATER…BEVERAGE DISTRIBUTORS… RESTAURANT SUPPLY COMPANIES… FURNITURE MAKERS… AND MORE.

**[MUX FADE: “1st go Interstitial 4 - Hopeful”] **

**Willis Elkins: **You know, one thing we're really interested in is, like, how the creek can be an example of both an industrial space that also has significant ecological function and community access and benefit.

JGP VO

WILLIS AND OTHERS WHO CARE ABOUT NEWTOWN CREEK SEE A FUTURE FOR IT THAT’S NOT SO DIFFERENT FROM HOW IT IS NOW. THEY JUST WANT IT CLEANER AND HEALTHIER.

**Willis Elkins: **We're not just doing this for, like, the residents that live in the surrounding areas or for tourists; it's for also the people that are working here every day that they should deserve to be able to work in a place that doesn't have legacy contamination.

JGP VO

THAT’S THE IDEAL OUTCOME FOR LAURA HOFMANN. SHE LIVES JUST A FEW BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE CREEK.

LAURA REMEMBERS THE FIRST TIME SHE SAW THE CREEK BY BOAT ABOUT TWO DECADES AGO.

**Laura Hoffman: **We went to, like, the most polluted parts and we saw, like, all this black and a black muck on top, and the odor just hit us in the face. And I remember that I got teary eyed, I got angry because this is like being in the belly of the beast. I can't even explain it when you've gone through all of these environmental disorders and, you know, medical issues, this is like being in the belly of the beast. it's just so powerful being there that I just started crying, you know? I carry that with me when I go to different meetings.

SM VO

SHE’S SEEN LOTS OF THINGS AROUND THE CREEK CHANGE FOR THE BETTER OVER THE YEARS.

EVEN AS THE PROGRESS TO FULLY CLEAN UP THE CREEK SEEMS SO SLOW… KNOWING THAT PEOPLE TAKE TO THE WATER GIVES HER HOPE THAT THE AREA WILL IMPROVE EVEN MORE.

**Laura Hoffman: **I know, a lot of people think that they're crazy for going on the creek in the kayaks and stuff, but they're, like, you know, frontiersman; they're forcing the agencies to look at the quality and the standards for the creek just for the simple fact that they're there and using the creek in that way.

[THEME MUX IN]

JGP VO [CREDITS]

THIS HAS BEEN EPISODE ONE OF HAZARD N-Y-C… A SPECIAL FOUR PART LIMITED SERIES FROM F-A-Q N-Y-C.

THE SHOW IS WRITTEN AND HOSTED BY SAMANTHA MALDONADO…

AND ME… JORDAN GASS-POORE… THE CREATOR AND EDITOR OF THE SHOW.

OUR ENGINEERS ARE ADAM CHIMERA AND MARK BUSH… WHO ALSO DID OUR SOUND DESIGN.

MUSIC FOR THE SHOW WAS COMPOSED BY NICK PENNINGTON.

ARTWORK BY MATTHEW FLEMING.

COME BACK TOMORROW TO HEAR EPISODE TWO.

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FAQ NYC is part of The City, a nonprofit, nonpartisan newsroom dedicated to hard-hitting reporting that serves the people of New York. Our work is freely available to everyone, and is supported by listeners and readers like you — go to the city dot nyc slash give if you’d like to pitch in. Harry Siegel is FAQ NYC’s executive producer. The pod also receives support from P&T Knitwear, an independent bookstore, cafe, and event space on Manhattan's Lower East Side with a podcast studio that can be freely reserved for community use. The pod is a proud member of the Brickhouse cooperative of independent journalists, critics and artists, and is affiliated with the Colin Powell School at CUNY’s City College where co-host Christina Greer is one of the Moynihan Public Scholars inaugural fellows.