Hazard NJ Podcast - Nothing is Forever

Toxic “forever chemicals” became a ubiquitous part of consumer products because they largely repel water, are stain-resistant and incredibly durable. Those same properties also mean that the chemicals can persist in the environment seemingly, well, forever. That’s left regulators and scientists in New Jersey and around the world grappling with how to permanently destroy the chemicals.

Editor's Note: "Hazard NJ" is an NJ Spotlight News podcast that examines serious pollution issues. Season 2 dives deep into the crisis of toxic pollution caused by PFAS, or "forever chemicals," around New Jersey and beyond. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music and more.

Read the episode transcript below:

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT'S ME WALKING AROUND CAMP NO-BE-BO-SCO... MAYBE BETTER KNOWN AS CAMP CRYSTAL LAKE FROM THE ORIGINAL FRIDAY THE 13TH MOVIE.

IT'S A BOY SCOUTS SUMMER CAMP IN WARREN COUNTY, NEW JERSEY.

I WAS THERE ON A TOUR BECAUSE... BELIEVE IT OR NOT... I'M A FAN OF THE FRIDAY THE 13TH FRANCHISE.

WALKING AROUND THIS MORE THAN 380-ACRE CAMP... I COULDN'T HELP BUT WONDER IF THE HUNTING GROUNDS OF MACHETE-WIELDING JASON VOORHEES... AND HIS MOM... WERE CONTAMINATED WITH PFAS.

IF THAT LAKE JASON DROWNED IN... ACTUALLY KNOWN AS SAND POND... CONTAINED FOREVER CHEMICALS... AND IF THAT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS SUPERNATURAL ABILITIES.

I GET IT... THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS... AND PFAS CHEMICALS ARE REAL.

BUT AS TOUGH AS IT IS FOR TEENS IN THE FRIDAY THE 13TH MOVIES TO KILL JASON... IT MAY BE HARDER TO DESTROY PFAS.

THIS IS HAZARD NJ...

I'M JORDAN GASS-POORÉ... AN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST FROM TEXAS.

WE'VE COME FULL CIRCLE THIS SEASON... FROM THE DISCOVERY OF THE FIRST KNOWN PFAS CHEMICAL... IN A LAB IN CARNEY'S POINT, NEW JERSEY...

...TO THE STATE'S PROACTIVE APPROACH IN REMOVING FOREVER CHEMICALS FROM THE DRINKING WATER...

...TO A UNIQUE PUBLIC HEALTH STUDY CENTERED ON ONE SOUTH JERSEY TOWN... PAULSBORO...

...AND NOW... WE'LL LOOK AT HOW RESEARCHERS IN THE STATE ARE RAMPING UP EFFORTS TO DESTROY THEM... ONCE AND FOR ALL. LIKE THEY DID TO JASON IN THE SEQUELS... OR DID THEY?

PFAS ARE CALLED FOREVER CHEMICALS BECAUSE... LIKE WE'VE MENTIONED BEFORE... THEY'RE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO BREAK DOWN.

THEIR CHEMISTRY MAKES THEM EXTREMELY DURABLE AND RESISTANT TO DEGRADING NATURALLY. THAT'S WHAT HAS MADE THEM SO USEFUL FOR SO MANY THINGS... AND IT'S ALSO WHAT MAKES THEM A THREAT TO HUMAN HEALTH.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING RID OF PFAS... SIMPLY THROWING OUT THE TRASH ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

WHEN ITEMS MADE WITH PFAS END UP IN THE DUMP... THE CHEMICALS WILL... OVER TIME... MIGRATE FROM THOSE ITEMS AND INTO THE SOIL... WATER... AND EVEN THE AIR.

GRAHAM PEASLEE... THE NOTRE DAME RESEARCHER WE HEARD FROM IN EPISODE ONE... SAYS HIS BIGGEST CONCERN WITH PFAS IS THE LANDFILL PROBLEM. REMEMBER THAT BIG STUDY HE AND HIS TEAM DID TO FIND PFAS IN HUNDREDS OF FAST-FOOD WRAPPERS?

**Graham Peaslee --- Professor Emeritus, Department of Physics & Astronomy, University of Notre Dame
**That was published and it went viral. We had about 300 news articles from that. And everybody took home saying, 'Oh my god, my hamburger is gonna kill me.' We even got an Onion satire of our paper. But it was, in fact, the opposite. Because in my household, you know, the teenagers ate the food out of the wrapper in 30 milliseconds. There was no cross-contamination to the food. But it could, if it sat there for a few months. But where does that paper go when you're done? It goes into the landfill. And so, 100% of those chemicals on the food wrappers will come off in 60 days in an aerobic landfill, which means it gets into drinking water, passes right through the treatment centers. And it'll get into our drinking water, it will get into our agricultural water that's sprayed on fruits and vegetables that we then eat. And those PFAS will bioaccumulate into the plants or into the animals that eat them. And then we eat the animals, we will get high levels of PFAS in our blood, which we do, everybody in North America now has them.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THERE ARE 14 ACTIVE LANDFILLS ACROSS NEW JERSEY... AND HUNDREDS MORE KNOWN OR SUSPECTED FORMER LANDFILLS THAT ARE NO LONGER OPERATING. THAT'S A FRACTION OF THE THOUSANDS OF GARBAGE DUMPS SCATTERED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHEN TRASH DEGRADES IN LANDFILLS AND MIXES WITH RAINFALL... IT PRODUCES A NEW LIQUID WASTE CALLED LEACHATE THAT SEEPS OUT OF THE BOTTOM OF THE DUMP.

THE U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY IN 2023 ANNOUNCED PLANS TO FURTHER STUDY PFAS IN LEACHATE... AND CREATE NEW REGULATIONS TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM.

THEY ANALYZED MULTIPLE SURVEYS AND FOUND THE CHEMICALS IN LEACHATE AT MORE THAN 95% OF MORE THAN 200 LANDFILLS SAMPLED NATIONWIDE.

MODERN LANDFILLS ARE LINED AND DESIGNED TO CAPTURE LEACHATE... BUT SOME LEACHATE CAN ESCAPE UNTREATED.

LEACHATE THAT IS COLLECTED IS TYPICALLY SHIPPED OFF FROM THE LANDFILL TO A WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT... SO IT CAN BE FILTERED AND CLEANED ALONG WITH SEWAGE AND STORMWATER BEFORE BEING RELEASED BACK INTO THE ENVIRONMENT.

BUT PFAS IS STILL A NEW PROBLEM... AND MANY WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS AREN'T EQUIPPED TO HANDLE THE CHEMICALS.

AS REGULATORS WEIGH HOW TO BEST ADDRESS PFAS IN LANDFILL LEACHATE... THE WASTE INDUSTRY IS BRACING FOR SOME POTENTIALLY COSTLY CHANGES.

**Kristyn Oldendorf --- Senior Director of Public Policy & Communications, Solid Waste Association of North America
**We do see landfills as a solution. Like landfills are regulated. It's an engineered system. You know, we can kind of safely collect this material. There's a lot of proactive movement to figure out the best technologies to sort out the PFAS. You go to any waste-related conference lately, it is just full of really great technologies around PFAS.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT'S KRISTYN OLDENDORF... THE SENIOR DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AND COMMUNICATIONS FOR THE SOLID WASTE ASSOCIATION OF NORTH AMERICA.

**Kristyn Oldendorf --- Senior Director of Public Policy & Communications, Solid Waste Association of North America
**The solutions are there. They're growing. We do see our industry as a solution. But at the same time, especially in the public sector, there's cost to that. So, if you have a publicly owned landfill, you know, publicly funded, and now you have to invest in all this new technology, you know, what does that mean? We'd love to see some more funding opportunities, especially for the public sector. But, you know, private as well. You have a lot of privately-run landfills that have municipal clients. So that also leads to a cost, you know, if they need to re-increase their tipping fees, that's the cost back to the public sector. So, our industry collects waste. We don't produce it. We don't really often have a say in what goes into it, you know, but whatever it is, we're collecting it. You know, we're kind of prepared to do that. We're preparing to do that with PFAS, but I think the concern or burden is that financial aspect and just being able to prepare for that long-term planning financially, and just, like, what do you need to plan for at your landfill?

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**AND THEN... THERE'S THE INCINERATORS. PLACES WHERE ALL KINDS OF TRASH IS SENT TO BE TORCHED... CREATING BOTH ELECTRICITY TO POWER LOCAL COMMUNITIES... AND AIR POLLUTION FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES TO BREATHE IN.

NEW JERSEY HAS A LONG HISTORY OF BURNING ITS TRASH. BY THE 1980S THE GARDEN STATE HAD A BIG PROBLEM. LANDFILLS WERE FILLING UP AND THERE WASN'T ENOUGH SPACE FOR NEW ONES... BUT THE TRASH HAD TO GO SOMEWHERE.

**Kent Manahan -- New Jersey Nightly News, 1982
**New Jersey's counties are under a state order to come up with new ways to dispose of garbage. The state's running out of dumping space, and experts say landfills and ocean dumping hurt the environment. One alternative is incinerating garbage in order to produce energy.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THEN-GOVERNOR TOM KEAN MADE IT CLEAR THAT IT WAS UP TO EACH OF NEW JERSEY'S 21 COUNTIES TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR THE WASTE... AND HE PUSHED FOR EVERY COUNTY TO BUILD A NEW TRASH INCINERATOR.

**Gov. Tom Kean -- R, Governor of New Jersey 1982-1990
**We worked through the counties, so that each county had to agree to either in juncture, if they were small counties, or alone, if they weren't, to do incinerators, which was looked at as a way of getting rid of some of this toxic material before it went in the ground and the water. So that was our hope, and that was a theory, and we put a lot of pressure on the counties, each of them, to come up with a plan, where they were going to get rid of the solid waste. Some of them resisted like crazy.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**GOVERNOR KEAN LEFT OFFICE AS ONE NEW JERSEY'S MOST POPULAR POLITICIANS EVER... BUT THIS PLAN FOR AN INCINERATOR IN EVERY COUNTY? WELL... IT WASN'T ONE OF HIS MOST WELL-RECEIVED.

**Brenda Flanagan -- New Jersey Nightly News, 1982
**Demonstrators from all over New Jersey marched in front of the Wheelabrator-Frye company office in New Brunswick. County freeholders last month amended their solid waste master plan to let the company build a resource recovery incinerator. The Statewide Movement Opposing Killer Environments, called SMOKE, says the incinerator will spew poisons into the atmosphere, and warns no incinerator should be built until the state establishes strict criteria.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**KEAN'S PLAN WAS NEVER FULLY REALIZED. TODAY THERE ARE FOUR INCINERATORS BURNING TRASH IN NEW JERSEY... EACH IN RELATIVELY LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES... WESTVILLE... CAMDEN... RAHWAY... AND NEWARK.

THE ONE IN NEWARK WAS BUILT IN THE IRONBOUND NEIGHBORHOOD DESPITE INTENSE PUBLIC PUSHBACK.

ANA BAPTISTA... A LONG-TIME ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ADVOCATE... GREW UP IN THE IRONBOUND. SHE REMEMBERS THE PROTESTS AND THE PUBLIC MEETINGS AGAINST THE INCINERATOR THAT HER PARENTS TOOK HER TO.

**Ana Baptista -- Trustee, Ironbound Community Corporation
**It was really widely reviled by the by the residents, and it was seen really as like an insult to the community, like, you're dumping on us, and you're going to continue to dump on us, and now the whole county, and, you know, all the areas around us can dump on us. And so people were really angry about it. I remember as a kid, it was a pretty, pretty unifying sentiment against the incinerator and the politicians who were supporting it. But, unfortunately, politics of the moment did not allow an opening to really challenge the facility siting there and the creation of the plant.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**TODAY... THE NEWARK INCINERATOR IS THE LARGEST IN NEW JERSEY. IN 2023... IT BURNED 960,000 TONS OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE... AND USED THAT TO CREATE ENOUGH ELECTRICITY TO POWER 41,000 HOMES FOR A YEAR.

INCINERATORS MUST HAVE AIR POLLUTION PERMITS TO OPERATE. THOSE PERMITS SET GUIDELINES FOR WHAT THE FACILITIES ARE... AND ARE NOT... ALLOWED TO SPEW FROM THEIR STACKS.

STUFF LIKE CARBON MONOXIDE... SULFUR DIOXIDE... PARTICULATE MATTER... VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS... DIOXIN... LEAD... MERCURY... ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE REGULATED THROUGH THESE PERMITS. BUT PFAS ARE NOT.

**Ana Baptista -- Trustee, Ironbound Community Corporation
**The incinerator is a, you know, a huge source of dioxin, lead, mercury. And, you know, I think the incinerator in Newark, at one point, was the largest single source of lead in the region. So it has a whole bundle of really toxic emissions that people are concerned about. I don't know that PFAS is the one that is the one of most concern, but it's certainly part of the mix.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT COULD CHANGE... IF NEW JERSEY... NEW MEXICO... AND NORTH CAROLINA GET THEIR WAY.

THESE THREE STATES PETITIONED THE EPA LAST YEAR TO HAVE SOME OF THE MOST COMMON PFAS CLASSIFIED AS HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES UNDER THE FEDERAL CLEAN AIR ACT.

SHAWN LATOURETTE... COMMISSIONER OF THE NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION... EXPLAINS.

**Shawn LaTourette -- Commissioner, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
**Then we can execute on the Clean Air Act and get it controlled as an air emissions matter, too, right? What about the garbage incinerators, and there's PFAS in everything, and they're burning the trash. That's not being captured in the smokestack now.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**FOR NOW... TRASH CONTAINING PFAS IS BEING BURNED BY GARBAGE INCINERATORS WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC REGULATIONS.

SO HOW EFFECTIVE ARE INCINERATORS AT DESTROYING PFAS? WELL... IT'S COMPLICATED. THE EPA DID NOT MAKE ANY SCIENTISTS OR OFFICIALS AVAILABLE FOR AN INTERVIEW... BUT THEY DID SEND US LENGTHY ANSWERS TO OUR WRITTEN QUESTIONS ABOUT INCINERATION.

BASICALLY... THERE ARE THREE MAIN FACTORS TO CONSIDER: THE TEMPERATURE THE INCINERATOR BURNS AT... THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT A GIVEN MATERIAL IS EXPOSED TO THE HIGHEST TEMPERATURE... AND THE AMOUNT OF TURBULENCE THAT OCCURS INSIDE THE INCINERATOR.

EVERY INCINERATOR IS UNIQUE... SO THOSE THREE FACTORS MAY BE DIFFERENT IN EACH ONE.

THE EPA SAYS THAT MUCH MORE RESEARCH NEEDS TO BE DONE TO SEE HOW EFFECTIVE INCINERATORS ARE FOR PFAS DESTRUCTION.

GENERALLY... THE EPA BELIEVES THE TYPICAL INCINERATOR IS ABLE TO BREAK DOWN THE ORIGINAL PFAS IN TRASH... LIKE THE COMMON CHEMICALS PFOA AND PFOS.

THE TRICKY PART COMES AFTER THAT. IF THOSE ORIGINAL PFAS AREN'T EXPOSED TO A HIGH ENOUGH HEAT FOR A LONG-ENOUGH AMOUNT OF TIME THEY MAY SIMPLY BREAKDOWN INTO DIFFERENT KINDS OF PFAS... WHICH MAY POSE SIMILAR HEALTH THREATS.

THERE ARE SOME INCINERATORS AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT ARE DESIGNED TO HANDLE HAZARDOUS MATERIALS... THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF PLACES WHERE OLD STOCKS OF FIREFIGHTING FOAM ARE SENT FOR DISPOSAL. THESE FACILITIES ARE DESIGNED TO BURN HOTTER THAN A TYPICAL INCINERATOR... AND ACCORDING TO THE EPA ARE LIKELY MORE EFFECTIVE FOR DESTROYING PFAS.

BUT THE FOUR MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE INCINERATORS IN NEW JERSEY ARE NOT MEANT FOR HAZARDOUS MATERIALS... AND IT'S UNCLEAR IF THEY ARE CAPABLE OF FULLY DESTROYING PFAS COMPOUNDS... BECAUSE... ACCORDING TO THE EPA... 1,000 DEGREES CELSIUS IS ON THE UPPER EDGE OF HOW HOT THESE PLACES TYPICALLY BURN. THAT'S A KEY THRESHOLD EPA SAYS IS GENERALLY NEEDED TO BREAK DOWN PFAS... AND THESE FACILITIES MAY NOT ALWAYS BE REACHING IT.

REWORLD... THE COMPANY FORMERLY CALLED COVANTA... OPERATES THREE OF THE INCINERATORS IN NEW JERSEY... INCLUDING THE ONE IN NEWARK.

THE COMPANY DIDN'T MAKE ANYONE AVAILABLE FOR AN INTERVIEW... BUT IN A STATEMENT THE COMPANY SAID... THAT WHILE IT DOESN'T EXPLICITLY ACCEPT PFAS WASTE... IT IS AWARE THAT THE CHEMICALS ARE PRESENT IN MANY PRODUCTS THAT END UP IN THE WASTE STREAM... AND IT IS CONFIDENT THAT ITS INCINERATORS BURN HOT ENOUGH TO DESTROY PFAS.

WITH SO MANY UNKNOWNS... AND WITH GROWING CONCERN ABOUT PFAS EMISSIONS FROM INCINERATORS... WE ASKED GOVERNOR KEAN WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT THE PROBLEM.

**Gov. Tom Kean -- R, Governor of New Jersey 1982-1990
**Listen to the science. If the science dictates that it's a danger, then you have to do things differently or do things in conjunction with that scientific inquiry. I don't think there's any other choice. Science is much better now than it was in my day, and we've got to listen to it.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**SCIENTISTS IN THE GARDEN STATE AND AROUND THE WORLD ARE HARD AT WORK TRYING TO FIND THE BEST... AND SAFEST... WAYS TO DESTROY PFAS.

ONE PROMISING METHOD COMBINES HEAT AND PRESSURE TO DESTROY NEARLY ALL OF SOME PFAS CHEMICALS IN WATER. REMEMBER... THERE'S THOUSANDS OF CHEMICALS IN THE PFAS FAMILY.

IT'S CALLED SUPER CRITICAL WATER OXIDATION... OR SCWO... AND IT WORKS BY USING A SMALL REACTOR TO PRESSURIZE AND HEAT WATER AT EXTREMELY HIGH TEMPERATURES TO RIP APART THE CARBON FLUORINE BONDS... CHARACTERISTIC OF FOREVER CHEMICALS.

THINK OF IT AS A PFAS PRESSURE COOKER.

**Zhiming Zhang -- Assistant Professor, College of Engineering, Rowan University
**For the water to be super critical means the water is at a temperature, a certain temperature and a pressure above its critical point where the water can act like both a gas and a liquid.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT'S ZHIMING ZHANG... AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF CIVIL AND ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING AT ROWAN UNIVERSITY IN GLASSBORO, NEW JERSEY.

HE'S WORKING ON WAYS TO USE THIS TECHNIQUE TO BREAK DOWN DANGEROUS PFAS CHEMICALS INTO HARMLESS BYPRODUCTS.

OVERALL... THIS TECHNIQUE TAKES JUST SECONDS OR MINUTES... DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF PFAS IN THE WATER. ZHANG AND HIS TEAM THEN CHECK TO MAKE SURE ALL OF THE CHEMICALS HAVE BEEN DESTROYED.

VERSIONS OF THIS TECHNIQUE HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY DEVELOPED TO BREAK DOWN OTHER TYPES OF CHEMICALS.

BUT HE SAYS DESTROYING PFAS IS MORE CHALLENGING.

**Zhiming Zhang -- Assistant Professor, College of Engineering, Rowan University
**The carbon fluorine bond is one of the strongest bonds in chemistry. That makes the PFAS resistant to heat, to chemical reactions, to environmental degradation.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT MEANS TRYING TO DESTROY PFAS THROUGH INCINERATION MAY BE INEFFECTIVE... ENERGY INTENSIVE... AND EXPENSIVE.

ZHANG'S METHOD COULD BE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THIS.

BACK IN EPISODE TWO... WE VISITED RIDGEWOOD, NEW JERSEY... WHERE THE VILLAGE'S WATER COMPANY IS REMOVING PFAS CONTAMINATION BY ABSORBING THE CHEMICALS INTO GRANULAR ACTIVATED CARBON FILTERS.

THESE FILTERS WORK WELL TO CAPTURE THE PFAS FROM THE WATER. BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT ONCE IT'S CAPTURED... THE CHEMICALS DON'T GO AWAY.

WHEN RIDGEWOOD'S USED FILTERS ARE NO LONGER EFFECTIVE... THEY GET SENT BACK TO THE MANUFACTURER AND BLASTED WITH EXTREME HEAT IN AN INCINERATOR TO BE CLEANED FOR REUSE.

ZHANG SEES A FUTURE WHERE WATER SYSTEMS LIKE RIDGEWOOD SEND THEIR USED... PFAS-LADEN FILTERS TO SUPER CRITICAL WATER OXIDATION FACILITIES FOR CLEANING SO THEY CAN BE REUSED... INSTEAD OF RELYING ON INCINERATION.

**Zhiming Zhang -- Assistant Professor, College of Engineering, Rowan University
**In most of the drinking water treatment facilities are still using activated carbon in most cases. So, once they use the activated carbon to filter the water through, to retain the PFAS on the activated carbon, they get clean water to be distributed to the water network. Well, the retained PFAS on the activated carbon can be transported to, like, for SCWO treatment. Otherwise, if those are going to be disposed of they have to be disposed of in the hazardous landfill, which is also costly. So, I think it would be a good combination using both activated carbon as the first step and then treat this activated carbon using SCWO as a second step.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**AT THE NEW JERSEY INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY IN NEWARK... ARJUN VENKATESAN IS ALSO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH USED WATER FILTERS.

NOT JUST THE BIG WATER FILTERS THAT PUBLIC WATER SYSTEMS USE TO SERVE WHOLE COMMUNITIES... BUT ALSO THE LITTLE CARTRIDGES THAT GO IN HOME FILTERS IN KITCHENS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

**Arjun Venkatesan -- Associate Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, New Jersey Institute of Technology
**I've known people who use Brita filters who never replace the filter. So, you're kind of accumulating these chemicals in your filter, and eventually it's going to leach out. So, you're in much more danger than drinking tap water directly. So, you need to replace these filters very frequently.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**MOST PEOPLE END UP THROWING THESE FILTERS IN THE TRASH... WHERE THEY END UP IN EITHER LANDFILLS OR INCINERATORS.

**Arjun Venkatesan -- Associate Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, New Jersey Institute of Technology
**We have created a PFAS cycle. So, we use them, we concentrate them, we put it back into the environment, and it's eventually going to come back to us again.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THE ONLY WAY TO BREAK THIS CYCLE... IS TO DESTROY PFAS. RIGHT NOW.

VENKATESAN AND HIS TEAM ARE USING TWO TECHNIQUES TO DESTROY PFAS... ONE CALLED ELECTROCHEMICAL OXIDATION.

ESSENTIALLY... THIS METHOD USES ELECTRICAL CURRENTS THAT ARE PASSED THROUGH A SOLUTION THAT... WHEN COMBINED WITH OXYGEN... DESTROYS SOME PFAS AND OTHER CHEMICALS.

THE OTHER... AN ELECTRON BEAM ACCELERATOR. FOR THIS PROCESS...

**Arjun Venkatesan -- Associate Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, New Jersey Institute of Technology
**We're just bombarding the contaminated water with a beam of electron. And what we have seen is this is actually quite effective in breaking down PFAS molecules, although, right now, at this stage, it's maybe energy intensive, but, like, there's active research by national labs to look at more efficient electron beam accelerators to do that.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**BUT VENKATESAN SAYS THERE ARE CHALLENGES.

**Arjun Venkatesan -- Associate Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, New Jersey Institute of Technology
**We are seeing the disappearance of PFOA and PFOS, but we don't know what they are transforming into. So, they may be forming into other PFAS molecules that we are unable to currently detect.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**EVENTUALLY... THE ELECTRON BEAM ACCELERATOR COULD BE USED AS A TOOL FOR ZAPPING TRAPPED PFAS OFF OF USED WATER FILTERS... LARGE AND SMALL. THE TECHNIQUE COULD EVEN BE A KEY TOOL FOR LANDFILLS TO DEAL WITH PFAS IN THEIR LEACHATE.

**Peter Jaffé -- Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, Princeton University
**This is the engineering quadrangle, and we are in the part that civil environmental engineering in the department focuses both on structural engineering and has a large component of environmental engineering and water resources.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**I MET UP WITH PETER JAFFÉ AT HIS LAB ON PRINCETON UNIVERSITY'S CAMPUS.

IT'S HERE THAT JAFFÉ AND HIS TEAM ARE USING A SOIL BACTERIA FOUND ACROSS SOUTH JERSEY TO DESTROY PFAS IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

JAFFÉ HAS SPENT YEARS STUDYING HOW THE BACTERIA... SCIENTIFIC NAME... ACIDIMICROBIUM A6... BREAKS DOWN THESE CHEMICALS.

**Peter Jaffé -- Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, Princeton University
**We did our experiments over and over and we sent it to multiple different labs. We did everything in duplicate or triplicate, just to be sure that there was nothing strange happening. And, lo and behold, it's true -- they are degradable.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THE BACTERIA IS COMMON IN THE ACIDIC... IRON-RICH SOILS OF CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN NEW JERSEY. BUT IT'S VERY SLOW GROWING IN THE WILD.

UNDER THE RIGHT LAB CONDITIONS THOUGH... THE ROD-SHAPED BACTERIA CAN REPLICATE MORE RAPIDLY. DOWN THE LINE... JAFFÉ SAYS THERE ARE A VARIETY OF WAYS THE BACTERIA COULD BE USEFUL.

ONE WAY HARKENS BACK TO THIS SHOW'S FIRST SEASON... ABOUT THE NATION'S MOST POLLUTED PLACES... SUPERFUND SITES.

THE ENZYME THAT ENABLES THE BACTERIA TO GOBBLE UP PFAS COULD BE ISOLATED AND CONCENTRATED IN A WAY THAT COULD BE USED TO CLEAN UP SITES WITH CONTAMINATED SOIL.

FOR NOW... JAFFÉ AND HIS TEAM ARE RUNNING A PILOT PROGRAM WITH THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.

ONE OF THE SITES THEY'RE TESTING IS JOINT BASE MCGUIRE-DIX-LAKEHURST IN THE PINELANDS. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS SITE IN EPISODE TWO BECAUSE OF ITS PFAS POLLUTION CAUSED BY DECADES OF USING AFFF FIRE FIGHTING FOAM.

**Peter Jaffé -- Professor, Department of Civil & Environmental Engineering, Princeton University
**The Pine Barrens are low pH soils and iron rich. We saw the bacterium here.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THE DOD IS ONE OF THE MAIN FUNDERS OF RESEARCH ON PFAS DESTRUCTION. MOST OF THE AGENCY'S WORK IS AROUND CLEANING UP THAT FIREFIGHTING FOAM CONTAMINATION ON MILITARY SITES.

THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT PFAS... AND MOST HAVEN'T BEEN WELL-STUDIED OR TESTED. SO FOR NOW... IT'S UNCLEAR IF ANY OF THESE DESTRUCTION OPTIONS WILL WORK FOR ALL OF THEM.

WHILE SCIENTISTS GRAPPLE WITH HOW TO LITERALLY DESTROY PFAS... GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS ARE DECIDING HOW FAR POLLUTERS WILL HAVE TO GO TO CLEAN UP THE MESS.

LAST YEAR... THE EPA LISTED TWO OF THE MOST COMMON PFAS CHEMICALS... PFOA AND PFOS... AS HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES UNDER THE FEDERAL SUPERFUND LAW.

THIS MEANS THAT SITES WITH MAJOR PFAS POLLUTION COULD BE ADDED TO THE NATION'S SUPERFUND LIST... AND ALLOW FEDERAL AUTHORITIES TO TAKE POLLUTERS TO COURT TO FORCE THEM TO PAY FOR THE CLEAN UP.

IT ALSO MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE AGENCY TO TRACK THE SITES... AND PLAN CLEANUP MEASURES.

BUT THE U.S. MILITARY... CHEMICAL... AND OIL COMPANIES AREN'T HUGE FANS OF THIS. AND A MAJOR SUPREME COURT DECISION LAST YEAR MIGHT HAVE CREATED A LEGAL OPENING TO UNDERCUT THE NEW SUPERFUND RULES.

BACK IN JUNE... THE SUPREME COURT'S CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY DECIDED TO OVERTURN THE SO-CALLED CHEVRON DOCTRINE.

THAT'S A LEGAL PRECEDENT THE COURT SET IN 1984 THAT GAVE FEDERAL AGENCIES... LIKE THE EPA... LEEWAY TO INTERPRET LAWS THAT CONGRESS HAD LEFT VAGUE.

**Steve Gold -- Professor of Law, Rutgers Law School
**The justification for it that was presented by conservative legal thinkers and conservative judges was, "Hey, we're only a court. It's not our job to make policy. Congress makes the policy." Here, Congress made the policy and said to EPA, "We're setting general goals. You figure out exactly how to do it. You figure out exactly what we meant, where we were not clear." And the court said, "We're just judges. We're not experts, we're not elected. We're not accountable to an elected president. So, we shouldn't be interpreting this. We should be deferring to agencies." It was viewed as a case of judicial restraint that was viewed as pro-democratic and pro-conservative with a little "c."

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT'S STEVE GOLD. HE'S A PROFESSOR AT RUTGERS LAW SCHOOL IN NEWARK. AND HE SPENT ALMOST TWO DECADES ENFORCING FEDERAL ENVIRONMENTAL LAW FOR THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

THE NEW DECISION TAKES MUCH OF THAT LEEWAY AWAY... LEAVING AGENCIES MUCH MORE TIGHTLY BOUND TO ONLY TAKING ACTIONS DIRECTLY SPELLED OUT BY CONGRESS.

THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE STRICT PFAS REGULATIONS FEAR THE DECISION COULD EVENTUALLY INTRODUCE MORE LEGAL COMPLEXITY AROUND THINGS LIKE WHAT THE EPA CAN CONSIDER A HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE... OR HOW FAR THE EPA CAN GO IN SETTING NEW DRINKING WATER STANDARDS.

HERE'S GOLD AGAIN.

**Steve Gold -- Professor of Law, Rutgers Law School
**The bigger issue that implicates Chevron is: Can it somehow be said that EPA has acted beyond the authority Congress gave it? I think for the hazardous substance designation that would be very, very difficult. The Superfund law, quite clearly, grants EPA the authority to add new hazardous substances to the list if EPA determines that those substances, when released into the environment, may present substantial danger to the public health or welfare or the environment. With a straight-shooting court, it would be very, very hard to say that EPA exceeded its authority that way. The Safe Drinking Water Act standards are a little bit trickier, because in addition to regulating individual compounds, EPA has regulated mixtures, and there's a debate about whether the Safe Drinking Water Act grants EPA that power.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**AND THE COURTS AREN'T THE ONLY PLACE WHERE THE EPA'S NEWEST PFAS POLICIES MIGHT BE AT RISK.

THE LATEST WAVE OF FEDERAL PFAS ACTION... DRINKING WATER STANDARDS... THE SUPERFUND UPDATE AND MORE... WERE PUT IN PLACE BY PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION.

BUT BIDEN LOST NOVEMBER'S ELECTION... AND NOW DONALD TRUMP IS SET TO RETURN TO THE WHITE HOUSE IN JANUARY.

THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION... WHICH IS A HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK... CREATED A POLICY BLUEPRINT FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CALLED PROJECT 2025.

IT'S A SWEEPING SET OF CONSERVATIVE GOALS FOR ALL SORTS OF POLICIES... NOT JUST ENVIRONMENTAL. BUT ONE PART OF IT CALLS FOR REMOVING PFOA AND PFOS FROM THE HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES LIST.

DURING HIS FIRST TERM... THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TOUTED IT'S PFAS ACTION PLAN... WHICH TRIED TO TAKE ON THE PFAS PROBLEM IN MULTIPLE WAYS. THAT INCLUDED PROPOSALS TO REGULATE PFAS IN DRINKING WATER... AND THE HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE DESIGNATION THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WOULD LATER REFINE AND FINALIZE.

**Andrew Wheeler -- Former Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. 2019
**This is the first time we've utilized all of our program offices to deal with an emerging chemical of concern. It is the first time we've put together a multimedia, multiprogram national research and risk communication plan to address a challenge like PFAS. It is also the first time we have held press conferences in all ten of our regions simultaneously on the same topic, and we're doing that because of the importance of this issue in so many communities around the entire country.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THAT'S ANDREW WHEELER... WHO LED THE EPA UNDER THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. HE UNVEILED THAT BIG PLAN IN 2019.

**Andrew Wheeler -- Former Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. 2019
**This action plan represents a pivotal moment in the history of the agency, and a pivotal moment for public health and environmental protection.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**BUT MANY ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATES CRITICIZED THE EPA UNDER TRUMP... LED BY POLITICAL APPOINTEES WITH DEEP TIES TO POLLUTING INDUSTRIES... FOR DRAGGING ITS FEET ON PFAS ISSUES.

IN ONE CASE FOUND BY THE NEW YORK TIMES... A TRUMP-SELECTED DEPUTY IN THE EPA'S TOXIC CHEMICALS UNIT ORDERED CAREER STAFF TO REWRITE A RULE TO MAKE IT HARDER TO TRACK THE HEALTH IMPACTS OF PFOA.

MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO FELT THE TRUMP EPA WAS TAKING TOO LONG TO ACT COMPLAINED THAT TRUMP THREATENED TO VETO BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION AIMED AT DEALING WITH PFAS.

CONGRESSMAN FRANK PALLONE... THE POWERFUL NEW JERSEY DEMOCRAT... SAID AS MUCH IN A 2020 SPEECH ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

**Rep. Frank Pallone -- D, NJ 6th Congressional District. 2020
**The EPA has known about these risks for decades and has allowed this contamination to spread. Last year, EPA announced its PFAS Action Plan --- it was woefully inadequate and since that time we've learned that EPA is not even keeping the weak commitments it made in that plan. The Trump administration is failing hundreds of impacted communities, and Congress must act for communities like Hoosick Falls, New York; Parchment, Michigan; Parkersburg, West Virginia; and far too many more. We need to act on behalf of states like my own, New Jersey, that are doing everything they can: adopting protective state drinking water standards, pursuing natural resource damage cases, but facing strong opposition from federal agencies under the Trump administration.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**THE MAN WHO WILL TAKE THE LEAD ON PFAS ISSUES FOR TRUMP'S SECOND TERM WILL BE HIS PICK TO RUN THE EPA... FORMER CONGRESSMAN LEE ZELDIN... WHO PREVIOUSLY REPRESENTED MUCH OF LONG ISLAND.

ZELDIN TOOK A KEEN INTEREST IN PFAS POLLUTION AT NAVAL WEAPONS INDUSTRIAL RESERVE PLANT CALVERTON... A NOW DEFUNCT FACILITY IN HIS DISTRICT WHERE GRUMMAN CORPORATION USED TO TEST FIGHTER JETS.

LIKE AT SO MANY OTHER AIRPORTS AND MILITARY BASES... PAST USE OF FIREFIGHTING FOAM IS THE SOURCE OF CALVERTON'S PFAS PROBLEM.

AS A CONGRESSMAN... ZELDIN TRIED TO HOLD THE U.S. NAVY ACCOUNTABLE FOR PFAS POLLUTION AT THE BASE.

HERE HE IS SPEAKING AT A PRESS CONFERENCE IN 2021.

**Lee Zeldin -- Nominee for U.S. EPA Administrator. 2021
**When it comes to Long Islanders' drinking water, there is no room for error. And there are many individuals in this area who have been suffering as a result of decades-long activity at the Naval Weapons Industrial Reserve Plant. Now, originally, the Navy didn't want to do any of the surrounding testing at all. In 2018, they agreed to do it for a one-mile radius. In light of new developments, we are urging the Navy to step-up and not only to expand testing, but to cover the costs of remediation. A failure to act is not an option. But every step of the way, the Navy, with regards to this effort, has dragged its feet.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**ON CAPITOL HILL... ZELDIN VOTED FOR BILLS TO REQUIRE PFAS STANDARDS IN DRINKING WATER... LIMIT PFAS AIR POLLUTION... REQUIRE PFAS CLEAN UP ON MILITARY BASES... STOP INDUSTRIAL PFAS DUMPING INTO WATERWAYS... CREATE NEW RESTRICTIONS ON PFAS INCINERATION... AND REQUIRE NEW HEALTH TESTING PROGRAMS FOR THE CHEMICALS.

BUT OUTSIDE OF PFAS ISSUES... ZELDIN HAD A MUCH LESS ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY RECORD.

HE HAS A LIFETIME SCORE OF JUST 14% FROM THE LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS FOR HIS VOTES AS A CONGRESSMAN.

AND AFTER TRUMP ANNOUNCED ZELDIN WAS HIS PICK TO RUN THE EPA... ZELDIN PLEDGED TO RUN THE AGENCY IN A WAY THAT WOULD FOCUS ON BOOSTING INDUSTRY.

THAT TYPE OF RHETORIC IN THE PAST HAS MEANT ROLLING BACK ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS... BUT ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

HERE'S WHAT ZELDIN SAID ON FOX NEWS THE DAY TRUMP ANNOUNCED HIS NOMINATION.

**Lee Zeldin -- Nominee for U.S. EPA Administrator.
**One of the biggest issues for so many Americans was the economy, and the president was talking about unleashing economic prosperity. Through the EPA, we have the ability to pursue energy dominance, to be able to make the United States the artificial intelligence capital of the world, to bring back American jobs to the auto industry, and so much more.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**WHATEVER HAPPENS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL UNDER TRUMP... NEW JERSEY LEADERS HAVE PLEDGED TO HAVE THE STATE REMAIN A LEADER IN DEALING WITH PFAS.

**Shawn LaTourette -- Commissioner, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
**It is not the case that we, the royal we, the societal we, on either the national or the state level, have gotten our arms around every tentacle of the PFAS problem. We have not. Not on the state level, and most certainly not on the federal level. And there's a good question as to whether over the next four years we will make any more progress on the federal level. We'll see. We'll see, I remain hopeful, because everyone should be interested in the public health.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**SHAWN LATOURETTE... COMMISSIONER OF THE NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION... IS CLEAR-EYED ABOUT THE PFAS CHALLENGE.

A CAREER ENVIRONMENTAL LAWYER WITH A FOCUS ON TOXIC POLLUTION... HE WAS FIRST BROUGHT INTO THE DEPARTMENT TO SHAPE THE GARDEN STATE'S PLAN TO HOLD BIG CHEMICAL COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE.

**Shawn LaTourette -- Commissioner, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
**What we had to do was sue all of them, ultimately. Solvay was the first to settle. Arkema will come next. The next domino will fall. DuPont will come to that table. So will Chemours. So will 3M. And when we first started this, after I had then become commissioner, I took meetings with executives from some of these companies, and I was very clear with them, there's not a question about whether or not they pay for what they have done, there is only the question of when.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**DEALING WITH PFAS REMAINS A TOP PRIORITY IN NEW JERSEY.

THE STATE IS STILL ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF RESEARCH... IS OFTEN AHEAD OF THE CURVE IN CREATING NEW REGULATIONS... AND HAS HAD NO HESITATION IN TAKING PFAS CASES TO COURT.

FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS... LATOURETTE AND HIS DEPARTMENT HAVE BEEN ALIGNED WITH THE BIDEN EPA.

BUT LATOURETTE KNOWS THAT THE NEXT FOUR YEARS MAY BE A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.

**Shawn LaTourette -- Commissioner, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
**I think they'll ignore me. I won't let them. What I've told folks about a change in administration, is number one: I'm not scared. New Jersey has led the nation in this subject matter, PFAS and environmental protection, generally, and we will just keep doing that, and whether it's to my colleagues at the DEP, folks in the sector of environmental, non-government organizations, and even folks at the EPA, what I would tell them is: I am not giving up, and neither should you.

**Jordan Gass-Pooré -- Host
**I'M NOT PSYCHIC... I CAN'T TELL THE FUTURE... BELIEVE IT OR NOT... BUT WHAT I'VE LEARNED OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS WORKING ON HAZARD NJ IS THAT AS BAD AS THINGS GET... THERE ARE ALWAYS PEOPLE WHO WILL STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT...

...PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO ALLOW COMPANIES OR GOVERNMENTS TO DUMP HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS INTO THEIR DRINKING WATER... WHO QUESTION WHY THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD HAS SUPERFUND SITES... A LANDFILL... AND AN INCINERATOR... WHILE OTHERS DON'T.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO NOT LIVE IN THE DOOM AND GLOOM. AND BEING THE HUGE HORROR FAN THAT I AM... I KNOW THAT LIKE JASON... THE VILLAIN ALWAYS RETURNS.

BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW... PFAS HASN'T BEEN FOUND AT THE CAMP IN WARREN COUNTY I TOURED EARLIER IN THIS EPISODE. AND NEITHER HAS JASON.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THIS SEASON ABOUT PFAS HASN'T CHANGED HOW I GO ABOUT MY DAY.

IT'S GOT ME THINKING TWICE ABOUT DRINKING MY COFFEE FROM ANYTHING OTHER THAN A STAINLESS-STEEL MUG... AND ORDERING TAKE OUT.

FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS... I'VE TALKED ABOUT TOXIC SITES... WITH YOU... AND WITH MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY. TRUST ME... I AM THE LIFE OF THE PARTY.

I'LL CATCH MYSELF ASKING MY AUNT IN TEXAS IF THEY'VE TESTED HER WELL WATER... AND THAT I KNOW A GUY WHO CAN GET HER A CHEAP WATER TESTING KIT.

OKAY... YOU'VE HEARD ME TALK NOW FOR MORE THAN 30 MINUTES. I'LL GET RIGHT TO THE POINT... THIS IS THE FINAL EPISODE OF THE HAZARD NJ PODCAST. I'M NOT GOOD AT GOODBYES. SO... I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THIS... A CLIP FROM THE MOVIE GARDEN STATE.

HAZARD NJ IS AN NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS PRODUCTION... YOU CAN SUPPORT OUR REPORTING BY HEADING TO NJSPOTLIGHTNEWS.ORG/DONATE.

Credits

Hazard NJ is reported and written by host Jordan Gass-Pooré and producer Michael Sol Warren

Executive Producer – Jamie Kraft

Executive in Charge of Production – Joe Lee

Production Manager – Chloe Motisi

Research Assistant — Judah Duke

Sound Designer & Engineer – Mark Bush

Composer – Nick Pennington

Art – Matthew Fleming